I’m going to preface today’s monologue by acknowledging that I’m not a huge video game person.

On occasion, I like to play Mario Kart, Madden or Quiplash – but I’m not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination.

However, I realize I’m an outlier on this front.

Video games are big fun and even bigger money.

The International Trade Administration estimated that the value of the global video game industry in 2023 was $184 billion – with more than 3.2 billion gamers worldwide.

People love playing video games – they even love watching people play video games, as exemplified by the continued ascendancy of streamers.

Recognizing this new trend in media consumption and content engagement, medical marketers have been trying to break through in the gaming world for years.

Few have had as much success as Level Ex – which develops video games for physicians.

Almost a year ago, Level Ex was acquired by Relevate Health, a 2025 MM+M Agency 100 honoree. Recently, the Level Ex brand was dissolved and the studio now operates under the Relevate Health branding.

Now, if you attended the MM+M Transform conference in April – you’ll recall Sam Glassenberg, founder and CEO of Level Ex, teased a new video game in the works.

In July, that game debuted.

As the father of a child living with type 1 diabetes, he and his team launched a free game for newly-diagnosed patients and their caregivers in order to onboard them to diabetes care management.

For this week’s episode, Pharma Editor Lecia Bushak spoke with Glassenberg about the launch of the diabetes video game over the summer, an update on the first year under Relevate Health and what opportunities video games present to medical marketers.

And for our Trends segment, we’re talking about some recent AI projects from Real Chemistry and Eversana Intouch.

Sam, thanks so much for joining. Thank you for having me. So So, Level X, your company has just undergone a rebrand. It’s now Revate Health Games. Tell me a little bit about that rebrand and what that all means for your company. Sure.

Well, Level X has been around for 10 years and our life sciences business was acquired a year ago by Revate Health, marking I think the first time in history that a video game company has been acquired by a PharmaMarketing company. And so after a year, we are now integrated.

So our games are distributed through Relevate Health’s many channels and so their clients are taking advantage of our games to increase depth of engagement. Our clients are getting access to the broader audience base that Relevate Health can reach.

And so marking basically just about a year post acquisition And this move as detailed in your press release is sort of the next phase in integrating Level X into the broader Relvate Health ecosystem after the acquisition, as you mentioned. And really the goal is to lead innovation in medical gaming and digital engagement. How are you going to be leading on the greater Relvate Health ecosystem to push that forward?

So yeah, I mean, LevelX has been the I would say the only medical game studio servicing the life sciences industry. And we’ve been doing that like I said for a decade working with a majority of the top 50 life science companies.

Relevate has an even bigger client base and so we’re able to combine our offerings between the two companies to provide better reach and better service for our clients. We have a number of new products that we’re actually going to be launching as a combined business that we haven’t announced yet.

Although in the past year, post the acquisition, we’ve continually released new games, new game mechanics, and our first patient-focused video game in the App Store, which is level one. And we’re going to get into level one today, and we’ll have you do a little demo for our our listeners so they can kind of get an under understanding of how the game works.

So, I’d love for you maybe to start cuz I know that level one had sort of a personal story for you behind it. Um, your daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at H5, is that is that correct? Yes, level one came out of my own need because it isn’t just about educating the parent and the the patient with type 1 diabetes. The other thing is it takes the whole community.

There’s nurses and camp counselors and teachers and babysitters and grandparents that need to ramp up on this. One of the reasons I built level one is because I needed it to bring all these people up to speak on how to manage my daughter’s disease when she’s with them. Level X historically has made games for HCPs. We’ve had millions of HCPs play our games across a dozen different specialties by now.

We have delved very lightly into actually making games for patients. Type 1 diabetes as it turns out is really an example where the patient has a level of involvement in managing their disease that is quite high. And so, just like you need to educate an HCP on how to dose or manage a patient, a lot of that responsibility falls to the patient in type 1 diabetes.

So it was really the perfect segue for us to create really our first mass I don’t want to say mass market, but patient-focused game. And you really recognized an unmet need, you know, when your own daughter was diagnosed because you kind of, you know, recounted that you left the doctor’s office feeling quite overwhelmed and didn’t really know how to manage all of these moving parts in treat, you know, managing type 1 diabetes.

So there was really kind of like an unmet need that you recognized where patients needed more than a brochure to come home and be able to learn how to manage this. So how did that kind of feed into the idea for the game and how does the game work? Sure. So first, yeah, the onboarding experience for type 1 diabetes is abject terrible.

Uh and by the way, I think, you know, as the The more we do this, the more demand we find for other patient games and other areas because obviously type 1 diabetes is not the only disease with a bad patient experience. But so our experience was like the you know million other people that get diagnosed.

On Friday your life is normal and then you know the next day you’re in the emergency room and you know within a day or a few days you’re discharged and your life goes from Hey, my primary job was running video game companies to haha. Now that’s my second job.

My primary job is I’m a pancreas where about 20 times a day I’m responsible for injecting what is really a lethal drug, insulin into my daughter in very precisely calculated doses. You’re you’re literally like every time she eats anything, you have to measure the carbohydrates and based on the time of day, calculate how much insulin insulin she’s supposed to have. And sometimes your blood sugar just goes up for no reason and you need to inject insulin.

And sometimes your blood sugar drops and you need manage like it’s it’s exercise when you get sick, it’s it’s there’s so much complexity um in managing this disease. But don’t worry, um walking out of the hospital, I’m showing this behind me right now, but basically walking out of the hospital, they give you what I call your guide to not killing your own kid.

Um, which is essentially a a one-page cheat cheat filled with scribbled notes and crossed out carbohydrate ratios and rounding rules and correction factors and random messages like always give insulin for carbohydrates before eating but only give a correction dose if it’s been at least three hours since the last rapid acting insulin they don’t really explain any of this and eventually you understand what this means it took me be many months.

I’m a Stanford trained computer engineer married to a pediatrician and it didn’t matter. It took us months to really internalize how this disease works and it’s ridiculous. Eventually you learn it but you learn it through trial and error through trial and error on your own kid which is brutal. Yeah. Um and this is silly.

And by the way we’re you know we’re the diabetes dream team like if Right an under-serve communities where people don’t have access to good information and books and everything else like diabetes is a death sentence in your 30s, like it’s terrible. And so this was just stupid. So we fixed it.

Um and you know use you know for the last 10 years we’ve been using video game technology and video game neuroscience to train doctors’ brains how to manage complex systems from you know managing patients, diagnosing patients, managing a ventilator, whatever Whatever complex system, and so we fixed it. So we built a game called Level One, available for free in the App Store.

And it teaches you everything you need to know about managing type 1 diabetes, but it looks like any other game you would download from the App Store. It’s what we call a it’s a particle game. Like literally they’re pouring it it looks gorgeous. It kind of looks a little like candy crush. It has over 60 levels. Each one takes you know two to three minutes a piece.

And then when you’re done with it, you understand everything from carb ratios to managing lows to stacking insulin to dealing with uh ketones when you get sick. Um and it’s fun. It’s like a fun to play rhythm game that you literally just play with your thumb. Like the there there’s there’s two buttons in the in the entire game. It’s beautifully simple, but it trains your brain how to manage type 1 diabetes.

So, this is really cool and fascinating because as you’re showing me the images, I mean it looks like any other mobile game. You know, I’m sure a lot of people have played can Candy Crush. I played Candy Crush. I’ve downloaded random mobile games. I see people playing them on the train all the time.

So, I feel like it really kind of meets that unmet need that you were talking about earlier, especially if it’s people who are coming home from the doctor’s office who aren’t pediatricians and Stanford trained engineers who, you know, are going to struggle to make sense of this. Um, what has the response been like since you rolled out the game a few months ago? I mean, how do you have any metrics and how it’s doing and how patients and, you know, parents and caregivers are responding to it?

Overwhelmingly positive. This has been such a fulfilling and meaningful exercise. So already, I mean, the game just launched a couple months ago and it’s for type 1 diabetes, which is a fairly narrow audience. We’ve already got close to 10,000 newly diagnosed diabetics and their caregivers playing the game.

Like it is already quickly becoming the go-to onboarding tool for endocrinologists and diabetes educators and You know, everyone in that circle. So, a few months ago you get diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and you’d have that horrible onboarding experience and now literally the endocrinologist goes, “Hey mom and dad, I know you’re super stressed out.

Play this game for two, for an hour or two, it’ll explain everything to you, come back with any questions.” And you can just see the reviews online. It’s literally everything from, “I’ve had this disease for four years and I finally understood insulin stacking or ketones from playing it.” Or the crazy is we’re literally in the ER. We were diagnosed 4 hours ago and we’re playing the game now.

So of course it’s five stars across the board and just endless, you know, feedback from players and everything I feel seen to oh my gosh we needed this and then a long list of how soon can we be able to play with pumps and when can I have this in my language and lots of other, you know, requests and what has quickly become a very, very active player base. I think the average play time is like the average session something like 23 minutes. Wow.

So, I think in the in the in the realm of sort of like educate like medical, you know, patient ed and that sort of thing. You know, you had them in the pamphlet or something like literally the average time when they open up the apps 23 minutes. Wow. Um and people are just playing through through all the levels.

It It really is, I think, one of the greatest showcases for how we can use game mechanics and game technology to help patients understand how to manage a disease, train them, improve behavior, and so forth. And like I said, type 1 diabetes is certainly not the only disease where the patient experience leaves much to be desired.

Yeah, I think that 23-minute, you know, time span on people’s spending time on on the mobile app is pretty striking. I mean, I think like our average articles about different diseases and new stories get like maybe like one minute if we’re lucky if people’s attention spans. So that really touches on something that I think um there it shows there’s so much opportunity in this area as you mentioned.

You know, type one diabetes is not the only disease that, you know, people could benefit from having a mobile game to walk them through at a sort of an educational effort while maintaining their attention span. So where do you see this moving forward? Do you plan on like expanding into other therapeutic areas? I know you said you have a few product launches happen I don’t know if you know if you can like shed light on on what’s next for you.

So, first off, this is a pattern that we’re very familiar with in games, which is the same subject matter, games will always drive an order of magnitude more engagement. My, you know, before Level X, I ran a company that did games for Hollywood movies. You would have 30 million fans of the Hunger Games that would spend 2 hours watching the movie and on average would spend 100 hours playing the game.

Games are exceedingly good and engaging people for a long period of time but more importantly helping them develop mental models of complex systems. Whether that’s Angry Birds, training your brain, how to predict the you know, the parabolic flight of an angry bird or some city training your brain how a city works. So here, level one is training your brain how to manage type 1 diabetes.

And so the request that we’ve been getting and this is what we’re we’re on right now is um you know having it localized for different languages and units and also the big thing you know the the game is completely focused right now on the first few months which is MDI multiple daily injections. But eventually patients graduate to pumps. And so we’ve been getting lots you can read the reviews, people like, “Hey, when can we play with pumps?” Because pumps are a big investment, you know, as an example, right?

So, as a type one diabetic, you have to choose which pump you want. And basically, the endocrinologist like hands you a few sheets, like info sheets, like pick one. Well, wait a minute. I’m making a major investment of this device that I’m going to basically insert into my body and wear for years, like and I’m going to use this to manage my diabetes. I want to be able to play with it first. And play is that important term. When you get a phone, right? You don’t read the manual, right? You go to go to play with this thing.

These things don’t even come with manuals anymore. You play with it. So we’ve had a lot of demand to play with pumps. Um and so we’ve started lining up sponsors and partners, pump companies who, you know, who very shortly players will be able to play level one and be able not only play it with injected insulin, with an insulin needle, with a pen, but they’ll be able to try the different pump interfaces and learn about the benefits as well as how to properly use them.

So you’ve already seen, you know, there’ve already been some announcements um and we are just continually adding new products for patients to try. They’re like, “Hey, we want to be able to play with them.” Um and so we’re we’re creating that opportunity in the game. And Level X is obviously moving more and more into the pharma marketing space with the Revate Health acquisition and then the rebrand. Our audience is largely pharma and healthcare marketers.

Um what What would you say are some of the key like learnings or takeaways that could have been applied to them in their work? Cuz they’re always looking for ways to educate patients and reach patients where they are and kind of keep their attention span. Right. I’m curious what your takeaways for them are from everything you’ve learned in the game industry. So already we’ve started work on building games for a few other disease states.

I mean, you can even just see the demand for like there’s a whole bunch of reviews that are like when are we going to have this for type 2 diabetes. And obviously so we’re we’re working with a number of pharmaceutical companies on on on some of these initiatives. The I think I was at a transform I gave a keynote Yep.

and it was almost funny like when I got on stage and I showed the you know like that guy did not killing your own kid, right? It’s like this is the current state of the patient experience and patient education. There is so much opportunity to fix this. And we have the technology to not only get better outcomes for life science companies, but also drastically improve the experience for patients. We see it.

Look, here it is right here. Diabetes is not the only example. Stop wasting money on silly stuff when there are so many opportunities like this to really take a bite out of to like really push, make a real investment using real let’s say in this case, game technology and game neuroscience to drastically improve the patient experience across the board.

Um and as you see when you do that, the uptake is incredibly rapid and the engagement is just like you said, orders of magnitude higher than what we’re seeing with traditional means. You know, for obviously for the players, they’re asking us, hey, we want to be able to play with these products and learn how they work and learn about their benefits. On the flip side for our clients, the point early on in the patient journey with type 1 diabetes, you’re making a whole bunch of decisions. Which insulin are you going to go on? Which CGM are you going to use? What glucose monitor? Which pump are you going to go on?

There’s a whole series of decisions that you’re making with your care team that are going to result in years and years of usage. And so the opportunity for the clients is to get in front of those patients literally at the moment of diagnosis or in the you know few weeks afterwards.

And that’s the opportunity, you know, to deliver content to them in their language and be able to demonstrate the the value of your product, not just in like a pamphlet or whatever else, but actually like let the user play with it in a tangible way in the scenarios where your device offers the greatest benefit. Former marketers are often talking about the patient experience and how do we improve the patient experience.

Is Do you have any thoughts on like why maybe there’s been like a slow uptake of ideas like this and do you see that changing in the future? So, I think it just takes time. Um, pharma can be a little slow. There’s lots of reasons for that. We saw the same thing with HCP. So 10 years ago when we first started Level X we would say, “Yeah, we make video games for doctors.” And people would raise an eyebrow. What do you mean video games for doctors? What does that mean?

And now when you say video games for doctors, people go, “Oh yeah, video games for doctors.” I’ve heard about that. I played the game at the last conference. Oh yeah, a bunch of our brands are doing that for their peer-to-peer programs. They did like it’s a thing. Right, everyone’s aware of it. 5 years from now when you say, “Yeah, Relevancy Health Games, we make games for doctors.” Everyone’s going to say Of course, games for doctors. When was was that ever not a thing? You know, it just becomes accepted as a fundamental force accelerating the adoption curve in health care.

So already on the HCP side, we’re seeing that. Almost every brand I I shouldn’t say almost I shouldn’t say every brand, but any brand that really where you look at it and you’re like, “You know what? Someone really needs a mental model for this.” Like they really need to understand how this drug works or how to dose it or how to manage the patient or how to diagnose this disease, they’re thinking about games. If they aren’t already built know if they aren’t already making them. Um, and so games are just becoming that accepted thing, that accepted force.

It hasn’t happened with patients yet, just because there haven’t been any case studies and demonstrations of that happening. You know, ours is really the first company that has taken, you know, dozens of experienced game developers who’ve worked on everything from, you know, Mortal Kombat to Call of Duty to Diner Dash and has, you know, had them take their craft and unleashing in health care. We started first on HCP.

Now that we’re doing it with patients and we’re seeing the traction with level one, that we’re going to continue to expand that and I the same pattern is going to repeat itself where they’re, you know, you say, “Oh yeah, we make video games for patients. Wait, what’s that?” And then five years from now they’re “Oh yeah, we played this and that and we used this and we used that to that and then five years after that.” We’re like, “Oh yeah, games are patients. Hasn’t that always been the way we educate patients? When did we not do it that way?” Yeah, that’s very cool.

It’s like you’re part of the Zeitgeist shift and level one is a bit of a catalyst as being sort of this initial pilot program that shows how successful this can be. It shows how much opportunity there is with these patient-facing games. In terms of like next steps for Relevate Health games, anything that you’re particularly excited about? Anything about the rebrand that you’re particularly looking forward to or any new trends on the horizon that you’re excited about?

I think since we were acquired by Relevate, we have now delivered more new video game mechanics, I think in the last year than we did in the last two. So, we have been because we have all of this exposure to first of all just additional client demand and also all of these scenarios that they’re bringing to us, we’re continually developing new mechanics. We call what we call game mechanics.

So, for example, for us, we have a game mechanic around diagnosis. It’s a reductive reasoning puzzle. It’s a puzzle game to train your brain how to diagnose rare diseases. We have another game that’s a strategy game for how to manage patients over time. We now have all of these new client scenarios that are coming to us and we’re able to build solutions that we then scale and we’re able to offer to multiple clients. So a big area for us has been clinical study data.

So for years clients you know clients have been saying you know hey what can you do to help us bring clinical study data to life? And about a year ago we first cracked it and we have just been building what we call data playground mechanism. where you know think about ASCO, poor oncologists are just bombarded with clinical study data, just bombarded. Um and trying to remember the different studies and the endpoints is is almost impossible.

And for a and for a brand, especially if you have this is our eighth study or whatever, it’s very hard to rise above the noise. Using the neuroscience of games, we have basically built out an arsenal of mechanics using everything from like hidden object games games, to collection games where literally you’re playing with the clinical data and to perform some action, you know, solve some puzzle or, you know, find something in a scene or whatever. And as you do it, you’re revealing the clinical study data.

And the moment of dopamine release, when you’re like, “Yes, success, congratulations.” That’s when you reveal the study endpoint and that drives substantially higher retention. So these are just examples of problems we’re solving and new game mechanics that we’re developing at a relatively rapid clip and we just continue to borrow mechanics.

So, so, the area is like, yeah, so we’re just continuing to build new mechanics, we’re continuing to build new distribution channels, and opening up to things like patient games, which is we’re already, you know, based on the momentum of level one is going to open up a this is going to be the way that life science companies educate patients, hands down. Absolutely. This is like some super exciting stuff.

I mean, the clinical data being turned into a game sounds really interesting interesting cuz, you know, I imagine that reading through um clinical studies can get quite dry, so turning that into like a, you know, dopamine game um can be really fun. Any next steps for level one? Are you planning on like doing a part two like a type two diabetes version or any next steps on that front? So yeah, we are we are in development on type two diabetes. It’s a different game. It’s a different game.

Even though both have the name diabetes, the management and what the patient needs to know, the rhythm is all totally different. So it’s a different game. But it’s a you can just see the feedback from players that they really you know, hey, when can I have this for type two? Both from HCPs as well as from patients. And then with level one One we’re just integrating one after another sponsored content where you’re going to be able to play with different devices, different insulins.

We’ve already you’ve seen the announcement from there’s a one pump company Modular Medical used. They had a custom level one level in their booth at ADCS and you’re going to start seeing just a whole series of levels in level one where you’ll be able to play with different insulins, with different devices as we continue to just add more content and scenarios to the game based on based on player demand.

Well, it sounds like there’s so many exciting things happening um for Evolve 8 Health Games and we’re excited to keep an eye on what you produce next. So, thank you so much, Sam, for joining us today. Thank you for having me.

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This is part of the broadcast we’re going to talk about the late summer agency AI push. We got a couple agencies we’re going to talk about here, Real Chemistry and Eversana in Touch. But we’re going to start with Real Chem. Lesha, you covered the story from us last week. Walk us through just at a high level. What is Health GEO? So, yeah, Real Chemistry just launched a new product called Health GEO.

It’s a platform that essentially helps guide pharma brands in monitoring and shaping AI content around science, medicine, and reputation. So, to break that down, the GEO in the name refers to generative engine optimization.

So, it’s pretty similar to the idea of SEO, search engine optimization, which I’m sure everyone is familiar with, but GEO actually targets the AI models we’ve all become familiar with like ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, and all of the others.

It can help brands craft reputation, make sure that they’re getting the right information about their products out there, and really making sure that patients and HCPs are seeing the type of content in ChatGPT and Gemini and other LLMs that brands want them to see.

So Real Chemistry spoke to them and they basically said they were increasingly hearing from their pharma clients that they want to understand how patients are using CHAT GPT to gather information about diseases and treatments. Doctors and HCPs are also using LLMs more and more in their decision making and Real Chemistry really identified an opportunity to work GEO into point of care moments.

A GEO strategy can help identify biases, risks, and misinformation from LLMs. Health GEO works by identifying things like LLMs hallucinations, any outdated information, sham sources, and reputation of red flags. And then it really helps brands kind of design the content they’re putting out on the internet and making sure that the LLMs are are getting the content they want them to see.

It’s essentially the way of the future. So, I think we’re going to be hearing a lot about GEO in the future. More and more brands are going to have a joint SEO and GEO strategy. And it’s really because patients are flocking the chat GPT as a source of health information even more than Google or WebMD or even TikTok which was kind of becoming like the the main source of health information um especially for young people. But it’s increasingly becoming chat GPT and these other LLM.

So it’s really kind of um an example of real chemistry kind of grabbing onto this opportunity, but I think it’s something that we’re going to see across the board in the medical marketing world increasingly in the future.

Yeah, I appreciate the run down there and it’s in line what I’ve heard from other folks in the industry I was talking with an executive from HeartBeat which is owned by Publicists a couple weeks ago and they had talked about the need for pharma brands and their marketers to get more in tune and lean into opportunities with the GEO space and basically saying that’s you know completely taken over how people search for information online. I’m curious you you talk about it kind of being the way of the future.

Like what’s your you you you kind of have the sense, I guess, that there’s going to be more of this duplicate like if real chem’s doing it if these holding companies are doing it. We’re going to see more agencies. Probably doing it down the line, right? I definitely think so. I spoke with Mary James, president of analytics and insights at Real Chemistry. And you know, she really said that her gut says that brands and companies are going to begin having a joint SEO and GEO strategy moving forward.

So SEO is not going to be the only thing that’s important anymore. It’s really going to be GEO as well. And it’s really because chat GPT might be just as important as the influence that we’ve seen from Tik Tok around certain disease states.

You know, we’ve talked about that a lot over the last few years and patients are really using ChatGPT and Gemini and all of these other LLMs as something to rely on, you know, their their first point of contact before they even go to physicians around learning about a disease they might have. So, it’ll become really important for things like rare disease as well, a situation where patients often don’t have a lot of information, or communities to rely on. A lot of them are going to start going and chat GPT.

So, it’s really going to become a responsibility from pharma and life science brands to make sure that they’re grasping the opportunity that these LLMs hold for them. I want to ask you just one more question, Lesha, before I bring in here ready to talk about what Evertson is doing, but what do you make of the fact that like this is kind of the next evolution we’ve seen? Like I remember when ChatGPT came out, there was a lot of experimentation.

We wrote a lot of stories people like launching these efforts to try and play around the space and now we’re really starting to see agencies say, “Okay, this trend is moving in one direction. This is where people are getting their information. We need to be able to see the information accordingly.” Like what do you make of that as kind of this this next phase, I guess you can say, in the AI revolution for agencies?

Yeah, I think, you know, we when we first started hearing about ChatGPT, there was a lot of kind of like, “Well, how can we use this um to help us brainstorm or to help us research things or to help us craft copywriting or creative ideas and that’s still happening obviously, but now there’s more of a push to make sure that the information that ChatGPT is putting out in the world is as high caliber and authoritative and accurate as possible and it really comes down to that building trust again and making sure that the science is portrayed accurately especially when it comes to your brand’s drug products.

Um you so if a patient is asking ChatGPT GPT, how can I take this drug or what are the effects of this drug? It’s really, you know, pharma companies are going to want to have some control or at least try to have some control over the information that’s being put out, um you know, by ChatGPT around their specific drug products. So, it’s going to become increasingly important to do this. Definitely, I appreciate you running through this for us and, you know, obviously real chem has been heavily investing in the AI space for a number of years.

Another agency that comes to mind on that front is is Eversana in touch. Here, you have the opportunity to talk with them. Not only talk with them, but go to their live event where they were demoing their new product. When we start on a high level again, what is AI agency? Yeah, so as you mentioned, I got to attend the launch event for the Eversana AI agency product tool. And essentially what an AI agency is is what you would expect.

It’s essentially an agency, but in the form of AI. And so Eversana launched this new tool that is meant to be an end-to-end AI agency. So, it’s almost as if like if you wanted to do anything, you would have, you know, in the healthcare marketing space, you would approach a traditional agency.

And this tool is meant to be able to do all of the things that a traditional agency would, but with the use of AI and at a much faster rate than traditional agencies would. So, essentially at the event, you know, the executives talked about how the tool is so strong that you’re able to do kind of like a year’s worth of work in about 30 minutes. And it’s broken down into different categories as well.

So you can have, you know, business strategy, uh omnichannel, content creation. As you you click into these like different verticals of the tool, you’re able to generate, you know, information, do market research, uh develop your own ads that are all kind of in line with like the MLR process. as well, which takes typically takes like a month to, you know, three to six months depending on the kind of content that you’re trying to output.

Um, another distinct kind of quality about this is that it uses AI agents as opposed to like an LLM or like large language models. So these are specific like AI agents that are trained in like health data, in the health data space, and they specifically output in information that is relevant for pharma and pharma marketers. So, that’s a little bit of high level insight about the tool.

Definitely, and and and one of the things that I remember we had the conversation before you went to the event is just trying to be able to evaluate what this tool is and now having gone, interviewed folks, seeing it actually in in real life and real application. Like what is your assessment in terms of what this can mean for Eversana and then kind of to similar what we were talking about with Lesha like agencies are always playing copycat with each other. Is this something you could see other agencies trying to replicate with their own tools? Yeah, for sure.

I mean I’ve already kind of seen a few other agencies you know or in the talks with a few other agencies who are about to release you know a type of product kind of similar to this as well. Maybe it’s not a full end-to-end agency product, but they definitely have elements that are incorporated in the Eversana tool. I think what’s unique about this is that it is an end to an agency and that’s the way that Eversana is meant like that’s their intent of putting it out there.

But they said that even their clients who have been using their tool aren’t necessarily like currently using it for an end-to-end purpose, but using it to kind of some of their, you know, current workflows, if it’s around content creation or if it’s around like market research.

The thing that really stuck out to me, uh struck out to me was um the content creation side of things, like the development of like an ad, a 15-second ad like instantly as well as, you know, you know, development of AI influencers.

And that was actually something that kind of came up in the conversation of, you know, AI influencers being, if they’re being leveraged by pharma marketers, you know, marketers have more control of the kind of message that they want to put out there because um as we know in today’s age, influencers make a play a big role in just kind of healthcare decisions that people make.

And so uh working with them can also be quite hard, but our AI influencers like the future of that, you know, where things become more digital. That could be an opportunity for, you know, marketing and then having a little bit more control with marketing moving forward. Definitely, I I think that’s a a really well-taken point. It’s it, you know, the fact that we’re having this conversation, Rolling Stone just released their top 20 list of content creators and influencers. So there’s a recognition there in terms of where media is going.

I I want to ask you a question too because you covered when Eversana launched Orchestrate, their MLR product too. And just what do you see in this kind of it really shows me that Eversana much like real chemistry is finding a lot of opportunities be an investment in the AI space. Is this How do you see this AI agency kind of as I want to say an outgrowth but maybe a continuation of what Orchestrate is on the MLR side of things. Yeah, um I mean I was talking to a few of the different folks who were like invited to the event.

There were a lot of different pharma execs there as well. And I think the typical kind of like consensus around Eversana is you know they’re very product focused and future thinking when it comes to being able to use tools that create efficiencies in the workplace. And so I don’t think this is like the last product you’ll kind of see from them.

They did say that, you know, they’re going to kind of use whatever data they collect and feedback to just continuously improve the AI agency model moving forward. And, you know, I can see there are being more of these kinds of styles of products that come out in the future, maybe using AI, but in different areas of like pharma marketing, maybe more in the drug development space and all of that.

And so curious to see where these things go, but it’s clear that, you know, AI is being integrated into workflows like more than ever before. Definitely. It goes back to what Lesha brought up earlier where it’s like, I remember that first year or two, you remember this two Leshas, just every story we wrote was, we’ve launched this and these are the things that we hope it works for. And now we’re getting into the this is how we’re actually incorporating it into our workflows. This is how it’s working on behalf of our internal teams, our clients our patients. So, definitely interesting.

I I would be remiss to, you know, we have a AI focused conversation here to not plug our upcoming AI event as well. MMN is going to be alongside PR week in Campaign U.S. Co-hosting the second annual AI Deciphered Conference in New York on Thursday, November 13th. It’s an all-day affair. It’s going to delve into how AI is reshaping advertising, healthcare marketing, and PR with actionable best strategies and all sorts of insights from folks on the stage.

Would definitely recommend anyone in our audience to go and sign up for that, but this is just a taste of what you’ll get at that live event later this fall. But want to thank you both for the great reporting and just being able to offer those kind of high-level insights for our audience. Thank you for joining us on this week’s episode of the MMN podcast. Be sure to listen to next week’s episode and we’ll kick off the NFL season with a couple of pharma brand leaders sponsoring players and franchises across the league. Take care.

The MMNM podcast is produced by Bill Fitzpatrick, Gordon Falor, Lesha Bushek, Ira Rick Raj and Jack O’Brien. Great review and follow every episode wherever you listen to podcast. And be sure to check out our website mmmmm-online.com for the top news stories on the pharmaceutical industry and medical marketing agencies.

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