[00:15]
I mean, I’m blown away. It’s really cool cuz FA is like an orphan disease. It’s very rare, right? There aren’t that many of us in the world and the fact that like this is the campaign that’s like goofy and like better than everyone else. You know what I mean? Like that’s such a flex. There should be more work out there that is for We’re in advertising.

[00:43]
There’s four brands that is going to change people’s lives and the only way they’re going to listen and hear about it is if it’s good and really good. And the way to get it good is to come here, see the work, be inspired and come back next year stronger.

[01:01]
Recorded live in Cannes at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. It’s the MM_M podcast in partnership with Real Chemistry.

[01:19]
Welcome into latest edition of the MM+M podcast for Cannes and we have a special edition today. It’s called Cannesplaining behind the main stage. And we’re here with Christopher Charles, the executive creative creative director at 21Grams, which is part of Real Chemistry and Fiona Cauley, comedian with Friedreich’s ataxia, who recently opened for Nikki Glazer, and you also are quite the podcast star. So, tell me about that.

[01:41]
Yeah, um I was kind of discovered or blew up on a podcast called Kill Tony, which is based out of Austin, Texas at uh the mothership which is Joe Rogan’s club out there. Um, it gives comedians an opportunity to be seen by millions. It’s the biggest live podcast in the world.

[02:08]
So, it’s kind of a make-or-break situation and I was very fortunate that it went well that day. Yeah, that’s an amazing platform to to really have a space to to show what you’re capable of. Uh so, you know, today we are talking about one of the top winners so far from Can and the pharma space. Your campaign won gold in the pharma category. The campaign is called Friedrich’s Back.

[02:36]
If you have not watched all nine episodes of this social series, you have to cuz it is phenomenal. And so, we’re going to start with Fiona. Can you tell our listeners a bit about Friedreich’s Ataxia and why you got involved in this and why humor and fighting humor uh in this campaign was so important to you. Well, Friedrich’s Ataxia is the best. I love it. No, I uh I have it.

[03:06]
So, I’m kind of a nurse assist. So, I love being involved in this. No, they reached out to me and I think it’s cool cuz Chris and the team kind of saw dark humor as a way in to a topic that is just sad. Like it’s hard to spin. So, as I’m trying to spin it or making it more sad.

[03:31]
They’re like, “We’re going to poke fun.” Which is all I’ve ever been able to do. It’s my only coping mechanism. So, I don’t know. Yeah, does that answer that question? I think it does. I mean it it’s you know a lot of people use humor to cope. I’m definitely one of them. I am definitely guilty of cracking a joke in situations where maybe I shouldn’t have. So, I totally get it.

[03:56]
And you know in this space because it’s such a coping mechanism, we see seeing a lot more humor winning the last year or two in this category and can. So Chris, can you kind of lead us into the insights that led you to realize that humor’s a way to get with this and really connect with this group of patients. Yeah. Well, first off, basic human truth. Yeah, we do use humor to break tension if you will. Like say why do people laugh at funerals, right?

[04:22]
Like why do you pick on your your uncle’s stupid jacket, you know, at a funeral to make your mom laugh or make so, you know, someone feel better. But uh the insights were, you know, it started with Fiona. It started when we saw your content on um Instagram and and socials and Kill Tony and stuff. And uh that made us think.

[04:43]
We’re like, “Okay, well, what what can we do at 21 grams?” You know, what can we do with our client Biogen which uh you know, has a a medicine for uh called SkyClearis to help people with Friedricka Taxis to stop uh disease progression. And um we dug deep We went into all socials, we went into data, we and we figured out that a lot of the people with this specific disease use humor to cope, like what Fiona said.

[05:10]
And we started for first with a with a writer’s room, you know, with all the talent that we that we have in house. And we have tons of writers, art directors, it’s just everybody, you know, that has a different different skills. Um and our team specifically that worked on this was Megan Hickey, Emma Coates, you’ve got Kate Bingham and Nicole Meyer, you know, they were the leads, but then we pulled people from all over the company as well to do writers’ rooms.

[05:38]
And we sat in and we wrote, we rewrote, we bounced jokes Folks off each other. We had a big whiteboard, figure it out what what worked, what didn’t, you know? And uh really what we talk about at 21 grams a lot is um you got to be hard on the working good to each other. And uh that’s what we did. We had fun and uh we wrote the shit out of it over and over again. And then when it got to actually filming it, uh that’s a whole another thing. Like is some of the jokes don’t land, right? And you got to think on the fly. And uh we did that as well.

[06:08]
And you know, we had our producers, you know, our this was completely done in house. It’s called Room 42 is a production uh company at uh 21 Grams Real Chemistry. And uh we uh we riff on there just behind the camera and came up with new jokes or we even talked to the actor and he improved too and we got that too. So we hit it from all sides with all the different talent that we have and uh worked out. Yeah and let’s let’s get to the talk because that’s one of the reasons you’re here today.

[06:37]
Uh you know you were on the main stage uh which is an incredible feat. I haven’t tried gonna get there for years. So hats off that you got on there. And you know it’s fascinating because you know I mean there’s there’s hundreds I mean there’s probably thousands of panels across Can this year. And this is the only one to my knowledge that had a biopharma company on stage and that’s Biogen.

[07:00]
So how did you know how did you pitch this idea to Can and knew it was going to be so compelling and they were going to say yes we we need to put this on stage. It was um so I guess we’ll start for like when we first started thinking about it. Um we had a couple ideas. Um but the first thing you have to do is you have to think about what you what you know. You’re going to write what you know or what you have the most experience in.

[07:24]
And in healthcare advertising, like I come I come from consumer side, you know, like I I used to work at World Wrestling Entertainment. You know, like it was like a whole different world. And um when you get into healthcare advertising, so the thing is um it’s just there’s not much humor and And there’s not much or there if there is, let’s be honest, it’s not the best, you know. Um, there’s some really corny shit out there. And um and we’re we it’s a taste thing. So, we knew we’re good at it.

[07:54]
We did it a lot. We’ve done it a lot over the past years. We’ve been recognized for it here and short list before. And that was the first step. So, if you know what you know and and you have a point of view to give advice to other people to help them along, that’s the first step. And the second part is um well Well, what? Is it less than 1% I’m sure of like people that get even a stage at can like around every year like from all the submissions.

[08:22]
We had to we took that and then we had to have a really really strong point of view and also some stopping power talent which is Fiona Big Time and also we brought in Bill Nye. Awesome. And so let’s talk about the presentation a little bit. I would love to hear what was your main message that you were trying to get across Fiona. My main message, I mean, I think Chris kind of said it, right?

[08:50]
The like we’ve cried enough and I think it I was, you know, thinking of my feet ironically enough. Um, I’m in a wheelchair for those of you that can’t see me. You can hear it. I’m sorry. Um, no. Okay. No, what does say on stage?

[09:15]
Oh, I think uh humor versus like shocking and a sad way is more like shareable and people want to like spread that even if it’s dark humor.

[09:29]
Like and that’s the thing I’ve found with my comedy a lot cuz when I started comedy, I was really not sure that my type of humor would be something thing that people be into cuz it’s always been like, “Oh my god, Peter, you can’t say that.” You know, but I only talk about myself. Like I’m not, you know, but like using other people’s experiences, but like people relate to it.

[09:59]
Even if they don’t have a FA or a form of a taxia, they know someone or they bring it back to themselves and that’s what’s so cool about this and that’s kind of what what we were talking about. Yeah, and you know, as you were on stage and you’re presenting, I’m guessing you probably had eyes on the crowd at at at various points.

[10:21]
I mean, could you really see people leaning in and and really into it in a way that they probably weren’t expecting to see something, you know, a humor in this case on stage like this. Chris had me go up and do four minutes of just my stand-up material before we started answering like the bigger questions with the Bill Nye stuff.

[10:44]
So it was Bill Nye or Chris Bill Nye than me and I think me doing literally just my comedy was shocking, but it was really fun. They liked it. That is amazing. Yeah, like the crowd popped over and over again from the very beginning to the very last bit of, you know, finding 500 rubber chickens under people’s seats and squeezing them to death. Uh, like uh it was great.

[11:12]
It It happened um It was throughout. Everybody was engaged. Everybody was smiling. We’ve heard so much good feedback already. And uh yeah, um even can mention that this might be one of the best talks that they have seen. seen in a very long time. Uh, we brought in fog machines. We had a light show. You know, and I I I want to talk just a little bit more about the creation of the campaign because one of the things that stood out to me was two different creatives as we were walking the work in the palette made very similar comments.

[11:41]
And I’m going to paraphrase Franklin Williams who was the jury president. He said something along the lines of, “You know, a lot of people try to write humor and you can see that in ads.” But it was obvious to us whoever wrote these ads, knew humor, and knew how to do it. And that was so obvious to them in the jury, and it was one of the reasons why it really stood out because humor in this industry is so hard. So, talk me through how to get humor right in pharma. Ooh.

[12:12]
That’s a multi-layered question, my friend. Well, first, you got to have the talent. You got to know you know you people have to know how to write it. Our team at 21 Grams knows how to write it. Um, I actually was class clown in two 2003, Jameson. Were you too? Oh, Fiona was too, sweet. Um, but um the thing is uh first, the team, I’ll start there. Right, we did a writer’s room.

[12:38]
We took it to a writer’s room like as in we all got together and wrote just again and again and again and kept pairing down. So, people don’t think about that as creative. It’s like some creatives write something and they’re like, “All right, I did my job. Let’s go.” You know, let’s put it to the client. We can’t do that. You have to rewrite over and over and over again to get something great. And then the next step is how do you sell it. You know, you how do you convince everybody.

[13:03]
And that’s where I think everybody falls flat in heavy regulated pharma spaces, you know. Everybody’s scared shitless when it comes to that because there’s this regulatory team. But if you’re just honest, you’re open with them and you talk and you talk about what we talked about on stage about this is going to relate to somebody and therefore they’re going to listen to the message. message that much more. You have to relate to people.

[13:27]
Most of the stuff that’s written out there in this category and health and the industry, no one listens to because it’s shit to be honest. And like and I’m I know I can say that because there’s not a lot of good humor out there in this industry specifically. So those are the two big steps I would say. It’s write, rewrite, rewrite, kill your darlings and just don’t take yourself too seriously because you have to keep things going.

[13:55]
moving forward and writing to a point where you get that crystallized funny funny shit. Yeah, and uh you know one of the things that really stood out to me um last year talking with Kofimu Gottfried who is the CMO of DoorDash and we were talking about their epic Super Bowl ad last year that ended up winning Titanium in Cannes. And you know he made the point that lawyers should be there to get you to yes.

[14:21]
And it’s and that’s been a message for me coming from the consumers side to farmers, your lawyers shouldn’t be there to say no. They should be there to get you to yes. And I think sometimes this industry forgets that. 100%. That’s a really good point. And that’s the point of working together, bringing them in early. That’s a huge thing. Bringing them in early, sitting down, just talk about the concept originally. Just warm it up like a crowd, right?

[14:44]
Yeah Then next next round, show them all the content, work with them, hear them out, change it if you have to cuz you have to be balanced. I understand that when you’re talking about a drug that could have side effects or whatever, understand that, but it’s all about working together. Yeah, I’m kind of curious on this point because on the consumer side, you bring in talent and often they’re allowed to add lib on set in campaigns, but on the pharma side, does everything have to be scripted? Is there room for adlib?

[15:10]
So you have to have everything scripted, approved and that’s probably even harder to be funny when you can’t add lib some stuff on stage within the message. So different companies um are, you know, believe in different things, different regulatory teams for this. We got into a very good place for regulatory team where they know the gist of what we’re going to talk about, the points that we could say, the points that we couldn’t say, and we did a lot at ad lab. You know? Yeah, because you cover everything you possibly can on set. You cover as much as possible.

[15:40]
We had Friedrich, the the main character, teaches improv. You know, like he was great. He added so much to the script on top of what we already had, which was really good. And then that’s what made it shine. Um so you get that, but then don’t forget there’s an there’s an edit that the PRC team or the regulatory team will review again. You know, like and then you can make changes. As long as you get enough coverage, you’re good. Yeah, okay. That’s really fast. thing. And, and, Fiona, I want to bring it back to you.

[16:10]
Uh, after this work debuts into the world, what was your reaction seeing it and what was the reaction from the community of people with Frijrix Ataxia seeing it portrayed in a way that they’ve probably never seen it portrayed before? I mean, I I can’t speak for other people with that way cuz I don’t know that they I know people that know about this yet, honestly.

[16:36]
Um, but But my reaction, I mean, I’m blown away. It’s really cool cuz FA is like an orphan disease. It’s very rare, right? There aren’t that many of us in the world. And the fact that like this is the campaign that’s like goofy and like better than everyone else. You know what I mean? Like that’s such a flex.

[17:06]
Like it just It feels like so on brand and I feel really proud that I could like be in any kind of like inspiration for making it funny or it’s just so relatable and this is such an unrelatable disease and like the way you bottled that in this campaign is I think it’s going to change them shit like across the board. Yeah, absolutely.

[17:36]
And so we can’t can have a conversation from Ken. Uh without talking about what was uh the best thing you saw or heard this week. What was the thing that really stood out to you as your moment of like, you know, outside of your presentation just being out here that you’re just going to take with you for the rest of your life.

[17:56]
Um well, Bill Nye, he is the goofiest person I’ve ever met in my life. This is probably not the answer you’re looking for.

[18:07]
But he and I we were all walking to a different like part of the festival and he was walking next to me and some guy ran up and like cut me off and I just stopped my wheelchair cuz they wanted a photo with Bill and Bill goes “Oh how uh how charming for you to step in front of a girl with a wheelchair to try to get a photo with me.” And it was like the most disarming thing.

[18:36]
I don’t know This has been This has been a really interesting experience. I do not feel like other or disabled here. I feel very much equal to everyone. Bill Nye, absolute legend. I’m He’s my dad. You’re in the universe.

[18:59]
One talk that I thought was really really inspiring was um I’m going to say it wrong uh uh Harajuku, I believe it’s called.

[19:07]
and it’s a company that um uses uh I I believe it’s it’s an Asian company that uh that focuses on people with intellectual disabilities that um there’s a lot of them that are really really great at artwork and and just beautiful stuff that they’re making like from repetition like other there’s a lot of similarities with like repetitive patterns and things and they made it into a luxury brand all of these people.

[19:35]
Um and they have a bunch of different people making these uh these different prints and styles and it’s it’s it’s as as on t-shirts, shorts, it’s fine art and and all the proceeds that they they go to these people and they’re getting they they get to do their own taxes now like which they never even had to do because they’re making so much money. And it was so inspiring, so cool. They did a live performance on uh on stage.

[20:05]
It was truly inspiring. That was cool. Yeah, and And uh, you know, my final question for you is, you know, when we finished MMN and his agency 100, I emailed all 100 agencies I said, “Hey, are you going to be in Cannes? I’d love to see you.” I got very few responses. I mean, I knew, you know, a lot of holding companies would be here, but the majority of the list, you know, either didn’t respond or actually told me, “Hey, we’re not going to be there.” So, what is your message to all of those agencies who were sitting out Cannes of why they’ve got to be here in the future?

[20:35]
Ooh. Well, You got When you go to can you go to to be inspired, you see trends. You can figure out what’s going to happen in the next couple years. And And you have to be on the forefront of this stuff. You know, I’m sorry but yeah sure. Everybody’s talking about AI. I could like I get it. We’re an AI company AI company from very forward. We’ve been doing it for a long time.

[21:03]
When I say we, I mean real chemistry 21 grams is part of real chemistry.

[21:08]
But um but like there’s so much other stuff to talk about and to be inspired by and what’s the next next big idea that’s going to change someone’s life to change the world and and also like hopefully this project and this talk inspires other agencies to get on their horse and do work for clients, you know, paying clients instead of just pro bono stuff.

[21:35]
Um and and do good work that gets recognized because that’s important too because you know, sure. Again, you could do a sub story like to like like Fiona’s point, like you do a sub story that sure could motivate some Some people, you know, just for an awareness play. That’s what a lot of people do, but there should be more work out there that is for we’re in advertising.

[21:58]
There’s four brands that is going to change people’s lives and the only way they’re going to listen and hear about it is if it’s good and really good. And the way to get it good is to come here, see the work, be inspired and come back next year stronger. Awesome. Well, this was such a fun podcast with the two of you.

[22:18]
This is MMN’s podcast I cast from Can, special edition, Cannessplaining behind the main stage with Christopher Charles, executive creative director at 21 Grams, which is part of Real Chemistry and Fiona Cauley, a comedian with Friedreich’s ataxia. Thank you so much to the two of you for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. Peace.

[22:52]
Can’t play that. Can’t play that. Can’t play that.